#27 - Andrew Coe, Elevator Coffee

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Drop Temp Coffee Podcast. I'm Tim. And I'm Carrie. And we're two coffee roasters in the Pacific Northwest talking about the coffee business, the joy of being an entrepreneur, all things coffee roasting, and our coffee culture, and maybe coffee itself. Thanks for being here. We appreciate you listening.

[00:00:23] Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Drop Temp Coffee Podcast. I'm Carrie. And then I have Tim. Man, what a great day this is.

[00:00:32] It's a it is a fabulous day. And we have a very special guest on our podcast. We have Andrew Coe from Elevator Coffee and who is also the 2023 US Roasters champion.

[00:00:46] We are very excited to have you on the show, Andrew. And we'd love to get to learn about you and your coffee journey.

[00:00:55] And before we dive into the episode, we want to thank our sponsors for making this happen.

[00:01:01] Yeah, it's my honor to say a quick thank you to San Cristobal importers, importers of fine coffee from Mexico and Ethiopia.

[00:01:10] Hello, Jacob. We'd also like to say thank you to Primo Roasting Equipment, our dedicated first sponsor for the last three years.

[00:01:19] We appreciate you guys so much, Christian, Brandon. Thank you again.

[00:01:24] And we'd also like to say thank you to Kool-Aid Coffee coming up with a machine that will blow your mind.

[00:01:31] And we would like to say a huge thank you to Seattle Coffee Automation for maybe the best small bagging machine in history, my opinion.

[00:01:42] In the meantime, hello, Andrew. So nice to have you.

[00:01:46] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[00:01:49] Yeah, we were just talking how excited we are to have you on the show.

[00:01:55] And you're currently based in Utah right now, but you lived in Portland.

[00:02:00] We were just talking about how we never crossed paths with each other.

[00:02:02] And now we're finally being able to have a sit down and interview with you via the World Wide Web.

[00:02:09] Andrew, I'd love to learn about you.

[00:02:11] I mean, I've read up stories about you getting started with elevator coffee and you being a U.S. Roasters champion.

[00:02:20] Can you kind of let us know, like, how did you get your starting journey and, you know, you're involved with elevator?

[00:02:28] Yeah, I so I kind of had a roundabout way of getting into coffee, which, you know, you hear that story a lot.

[00:02:35] I was a I was a math student.

[00:02:39] I have a master's degree in math from Oregon State.

[00:02:42] And I thought that I was going to be an actuary, but I hadn't taken the actuarial exams.

[00:02:51] So I moved to Seattle and was just meeting a job that had health insurance.

[00:02:57] So I took a job at a Tully's Coffee.

[00:02:59] OK.

[00:03:01] And it was great.

[00:03:03] I had an amazing manager.

[00:03:07] And I went from really not knowing anything about coffee, except that I drank a lot of it during grad school to having this experience where suddenly coffee tasted good.

[00:03:19] And people talked about the head roaster there at Tully's.

[00:03:26] And we're in very reverent tones, you know, like he does all these blends and it's amazing.

[00:03:32] And I was like, man, this is this is a pretty cool community.

[00:03:38] And there was way more to coffee than I thought.

[00:03:40] But I had this math degree.

[00:03:42] So I took a job in engineering and we my wife and I moved from Seattle to Kansas City for her med school.

[00:03:51] I started home roasting in Kansas City because at that time there wasn't a huge specialty coffee scene there.

[00:04:00] Not like now where Kansas City has so many great roasters.

[00:04:05] But I started home roasting and it was like a hobby.

[00:04:09] I every town that I visited for my engineering job, I was going to different cafes and just trying to find the best coffee I could get my hands on.

[00:04:16] And exploring, you know, the whole library from Sweet Maria's at home.

[00:04:22] And so then my wife finished med school and ended up in in Portland for residency.

[00:04:28] And when we landed in Portland, I was like, all right, I have to give coffee a shot and just see like what I can get into.

[00:04:41] I knew Portland was a hub of so many like great companies, but I didn't realize just how many knowledgeable people there were.

[00:04:52] I went to an event in, I think, 2016 where I heard Rob Hoos and I heard Joe Morocco and Paul Thornton and Nathaniel May just talking and like very like deep knowledge of coffee.

[00:05:06] And and I was like, I want these people to be my peers.

[00:05:10] Like and so after that, I met the folks at Elevator and they were looking for somebody to help open their cafe.

[00:05:19] And I said, you know, I don't have specialty coffee experience, but I think that I could be a big asset.

[00:05:25] But they were folks that I was connected to through the cycling industry.

[00:05:31] And so we opened the shop and yeah, we we started by serving Kova.

[00:05:39] And I expressed interest in roasting, but, you know, only had roasted on a Beemore home roaster.

[00:05:45] And I was like, you know, I don't really know how to roast coffee, but I would like to know how to roast coffee.

[00:05:51] And I entered the first.

[00:05:54] So our cafe is across the street from Buckman and Buckman is this co-roasting facility that a lot of different roasters are able to rent time on machines and roast coffee for their own companies.

[00:06:08] And they were always hosting cuppings from importers and coffee education events.

[00:06:14] And they had a competition.

[00:06:17] So I entered their first competition with my little humble Beemore and I ended up winning that competition.

[00:06:24] And so my partners were like, all right, let's get started with roasting for Elevator in-house.

[00:06:31] And that's where we kind of got our coffee roasting start.

[00:06:35] And yeah, fast forward to 2023 and winning the U.S. roasting championship and then finishing third at Worlds in Taipei.

[00:06:48] So it's been quite the journey.

[00:06:50] And congratulations with all of that.

[00:06:53] That was called the Cascadia Cup, by the way.

[00:06:57] None.

[00:06:58] Yeah.

[00:06:58] Yep.

[00:06:59] Yep.

[00:07:00] I didn't get out of the first round, Andrew.

[00:07:03] I got left behind.

[00:07:06] My day that day was about, oh, 15 minutes long.

[00:07:10] And then I went home.

[00:07:13] Congratulations on that.

[00:07:15] First of all, roasting on a Beemore and winning, that is awesome.

[00:07:20] Like, I have to give kudos to you because out of all the home roasting machines, it's probably my least favorite machine.

[00:07:28] And for you to win a competition like that, that is freaking remarkable.

[00:07:35] I mean, do you recall, like, how you approached that roast?

[00:07:41] And, like, are you able to walk us through, like, how, like, with the heat and the temperature and all that, how you approached that?

[00:07:48] Yeah.

[00:07:50] You know, the Beemore is so, it's such a specific heat application.

[00:07:54] It's a halogen-based roaster.

[00:07:56] And so, you're heating with infrared heat, which means you have to be really, really careful with your power levels as you approach first crack and get through first crack.

[00:08:14] Because that infrared heat can take you literally from first crack into second crack in a rolling, if you leave your power high enough, it'll roll right from first crack into second crack.

[00:08:28] So, I, you know, I played around because the Beemore is such a small roaster and they gave us, like, 20 pounds of coffee.

[00:08:37] I just experimented a lot.

[00:08:39] And I cupped coffee with other industry folks and was like, does this work?

[00:08:44] Nope.

[00:08:44] Does this work?

[00:08:45] Nope.

[00:08:45] Does this work?

[00:08:46] Nope.

[00:08:47] And then we're like, oh, actually, these couple over here are okay.

[00:08:50] Let's experiment further on there.

[00:08:52] And so, really, it was that freedom to experiment that really was the path for success with that one, I think.

[00:09:00] I think it's so interesting, like, kind of talking about my start with coffee.

[00:09:06] I mean, I learned how to roast on a cast iron skillet, popcorn popper, so no fresco, Beemore.

[00:09:13] But I think people don't realize that when it comes to coffee roasting, that there's so much more involved as us as roasters.

[00:09:23] Not only as we're artists, we're crafters, but there is definitely a science and a mathematical equation that goes with it.

[00:09:32] And, Andrew, based on your experience, I mean, that's right in your backyard because you have to study the analytics when it comes to looking at graphs with ROR, drying stage, moisture density, all these minute things that everyday coffee drinkers don't realize that we have to do in the background to provide a great cup of coffee.

[00:09:54] And your approach to that with the Beemore, I mean, that's brilliant.

[00:09:59] Having the coffee community that we have in Portland is also super helpful, too.

[00:10:04] Being able to have those community members to give the honest feedback to be like, well, this may taste overdeveloped, underdeveloped.

[00:10:13] It's really great to have that feedback because you can take that and hone your craft with it.

[00:10:19] Yeah, for sure.

[00:10:19] It was there. There was no way I was winning that competition just as a home roaster by myself.

[00:10:25] Like having a community that was knowledgeable and willing to share information of just like you're like not doing it right with these, but you are doing it right with these.

[00:10:34] Like that's the sort of thing that by yourself, you just it's so hard to figure that out.

[00:10:38] Yeah. Yeah, it's absolutely true.

[00:10:41] It's great to have that big community and get that feedback, too.

[00:10:47] And it's just so important.

[00:10:49] With that being said, I mean, Elevator Coffee, you guys have done amazing work.

[00:10:55] Andrew, you've done amazing work with the coffee.

[00:10:57] And I see the different offerings on my Instagram posts.

[00:10:59] Like you bring some really great offerings to that.

[00:11:04] I am actually going to announce something on the podcast that I have not officially announced.

[00:11:12] Andrew knows what I'm going to announce.

[00:11:14] And so does Tim.

[00:11:15] Your homegirl here, Carrie, is going to be entering in her first SEA U.S.

[00:11:20] Roasters Champion Regional Competition that's happening in Portland next month.

[00:11:27] That's awesome.

[00:11:28] Good for you.

[00:11:29] Well done, Carrie.

[00:11:31] Yep.

[00:11:32] Thank you.

[00:11:33] I am super excited.

[00:11:36] When I got the email, I fell out of my chair.

[00:11:38] I couldn't believe that I got selected.

[00:11:40] By the way, Andrew, thank you for helping me out with that.

[00:11:43] Honestly, it's a great moment.

[00:11:46] And I'm trying to learn everything I can about the stronghold machines that they're going to be using in competition.

[00:11:54] Understanding how that works.

[00:11:56] The graph is still something I'm trying to study myself because we don't use automation when we roast, believe it or not.

[00:12:03] Myself and Tim, I should say, we just kind of roast manually.

[00:12:08] So it's going to be a really cool experience with that.

[00:12:11] And besides talking about myself going into regionals, Andrew, I'd love to hear your experience going into last year's competition and kind of walking through your experience and how that was overall.

[00:12:25] I mean, it's really exciting.

[00:12:26] I'd love to hear it.

[00:12:28] Yeah.

[00:12:28] So, man, I'm one of these people that I've raced bikes for the last 20 years.

[00:12:36] I've been a runner in high school and college.

[00:12:38] I'm very, very competitive.

[00:12:40] And so competition has always been like a nice outlet for me that is a healthy way for me to get that energy out.

[00:12:48] Yeah.

[00:12:48] So when I learned they're a roasting competition, I'm like, naturally, I'm going to try doing these because I love it.

[00:12:54] And I find them very fun.

[00:12:57] The 23 season was interesting.

[00:13:00] I only got into regionals because I got in on the lottery.

[00:13:03] I missed the general entry.

[00:13:07] But I knew finals were in Portland and I wanted to be on that stage.

[00:13:12] And the year before, I had finished fifth in Boston.

[00:13:16] And I was like, I don't know if I can win, but I feel like I could do really well.

[00:13:24] And then Worlds was in Taipei and my dad grew up in Taiwan and moved to the U.S. in 1979.

[00:13:35] So I have like a deep love for Taiwan and was like, man, it would be just a dream to go to Worlds in Taiwan.

[00:13:44] And overall, that whole season, like Denver, I got in on the lottery for that qualifiers.

[00:13:50] The format was a little bit different.

[00:13:52] So they sent you coffee ahead of time.

[00:13:54] You roast it and then you bring it to the competition.

[00:13:57] I did decently well there.

[00:13:59] I don't know.

[00:14:00] I think I was two or six.

[00:14:01] In finals, you are given your green coffee on site.

[00:14:05] And this is how our regionals will be is they provide the roasters on site.

[00:14:11] And so you're doing all your sample roasting on site.

[00:14:13] You're doing your roast evaluations on site.

[00:14:15] And it's a little hard to prepare for.

[00:14:18] You can learn about the roaster.

[00:14:20] You can get some practice time on a roaster.

[00:14:22] But you really don't know what the green coffee will be.

[00:14:26] You don't know exactly like the environment that you're going to be in.

[00:14:30] In Boston, we were outside in tents, not in the main convention center.

[00:14:34] And there's like wind blowing through and it was cold.

[00:14:38] And so, you know, you're a little bit just kind of in the dark until you get on site and they show you what the setup looks like.

[00:14:47] And then it's just kind of coming up with a quick plan of how do I execute with this brand new green coffee?

[00:14:55] I have like a couple of sample roasts to do, a couple of practice roasts.

[00:14:59] And then I have to hand this to the judges and say, like, this is going to be good.

[00:15:04] I don't know.

[00:15:04] I think being able to think on your feet, not trying to get too fancy, just like execute a good roast.

[00:15:11] And, you know, honestly, being lucky.

[00:15:13] Like you kind of don't know what the judges are going to love.

[00:15:16] And sometimes you nail the roast and sometimes you don't quite get it.

[00:15:20] And it's just how competitions are.

[00:15:24] So I don't know.

[00:15:25] I kind of love that pressure and the feedback and just the environment.

[00:15:29] You also just get to meet a ton of other great roasters who have, you know, they're technically very skilled, but they have a different artistic approach than you do.

[00:15:39] And so you can kind of talk about that and like learn different styles.

[00:15:42] And I don't know.

[00:15:44] So I think it's a lot of fun.

[00:15:45] Now, please do not undersell your skill, Andrew.

[00:15:49] Honestly, having a number of good finishes in a row is indicative of quality, probably more so than luck.

[00:15:58] Those kind of finishes are remarkable.

[00:16:00] Well done.

[00:16:00] I mean, it sounds like it was a full circle moment because not only were you able to win the U.S.

[00:16:07] Roaster Championship, but you were also be were able to go back to where your dad grew up in Taipei and just be able to compete there.

[00:16:17] And that's such an amazing thing to, you know, represent your family in that way.

[00:16:23] And being in it's so touching just to hear that.

[00:16:26] I didn't even know that.

[00:16:27] That's that's so awesome, dude.

[00:16:29] I like I'm really touched by that.

[00:16:31] My dad traveled with us for that trip to Taipei.

[00:16:35] And he was our translator.

[00:16:37] And like we actually took two weeks to go to his hometown, tour around a little bit, just kind of get used to the time change.

[00:16:45] And then we went up to Taipei and competed.

[00:16:49] And just the whole trip was just kind of mind blowing and like a dream come true for sure.

[00:16:55] Wow.

[00:16:56] That is that is so special.

[00:16:58] I was going to say the pictures on your website are kind of remarkable.

[00:17:02] Your entire family has like shiny eyes looking at the pride level in those pictures is really quite obvious.

[00:17:10] Yeah, it was like I don't know if anything in my coffee career will top that, but it was pretty special.

[00:17:17] Yeah.

[00:17:18] Can I ask what coffee they had for you for that?

[00:17:20] Yeah.

[00:17:21] So at Worlds, they have you roast a blend.

[00:17:25] So we got three coffees.

[00:17:28] There was a coffee, a pretty nice Ethiopian natural from Yergachev.

[00:17:36] There was a kind of funky Costa Rican natural that some people really liked.

[00:17:43] But I knew that coffee like it was borderline boozy.

[00:17:47] And I felt like the judges were either going to love it or hate it.

[00:17:50] And so I was like, I'm going to really try and minimize that coffee.

[00:17:53] And then they gave us a washed coffee from Taiwan.

[00:17:56] Taiwanese coffee is really hard to get because it's really expensive to farm and then it's really expensive to export.

[00:18:03] And so most of it gets consumed within country.

[00:18:05] So it was my first time ever roasting anything from Taiwan.

[00:18:09] So the blend requires that you use a minimum of 10% of each component.

[00:18:15] And I felt really good about the Ethiopian coffee and I wasn't sure how to roast the Taiwan coffee.

[00:18:21] And I was nervous about the Costa Rican coffee.

[00:18:24] So I ended up doing 80% Ethiopia and then 10% of the other two.

[00:18:28] I boldly decided to manage my time best.

[00:18:33] I did a pre-blend instead of like trying to roast the components separately because I was also nervous that if I didn't get that roast right, I wanted to have time to redo it.

[00:18:45] And they gave us enough time to redo it, but I didn't want to have to redo multiple components.

[00:18:48] So that is pretty cool that how you approach with that.

[00:18:53] And when you know, I'm curious to with the blend ratio that you did, we know that a classic wash Colombian profile is going to have like the fruit and nutty notes with it.

[00:19:05] And with your approach of doing that 80% and then the 10 and the 10, what were you trying to accomplish as far as the body acidity and sweetness with that?

[00:19:18] I feel like I have a good sense for how to roast Ethiopian coffees.

[00:19:23] And so I really wasn't thinking too much about the other two components.

[00:19:27] I was hoping that if I just roasted in a way that maximized the Ethiopian florality and sweetness and roasted that way.

[00:19:37] And I hoped that the other two coffees would just come along for the ride and wouldn't be too distracting because I really wanted that, even though it was a blend, like I felt like the highest points were going to come out of the Ethiopian component.

[00:19:51] And so I really wanted that one to carry that submission.

[00:19:56] So I guess at Worlds, you do both a blend and a single origin.

[00:19:59] But so this is specifically about the blend.

[00:20:02] But the Taiwan was hard because I didn't, I really didn't know what to do with that coffee.

[00:20:07] I looked at the, all the green coffee specs and I looked at like the elevation, the moisture, the density.

[00:20:12] And the way that I roasted in the sample roaster, like was not appropriate.

[00:20:18] I'll say that.

[00:20:20] It absorbed so much more energy than I thought it would that I almost ran out of time from my sample roasting because that roast lagged minutes beyond what I expected based on the stats.

[00:20:30] And so that one was just like, okay, I only had one sample roast and now I have to put it in a blend, but I really don't know what to do with this coffee.

[00:20:39] And so I kind of got lucky that it really didn't detract too much from the...

[00:20:43] You know, as I was thinking as you're talking along with this is, you know, for time's sake, you did have to pre-blend everything.

[00:20:52] As far as development, when it came to, you know, with everything coming out with roasters, you know, there is a caution, especially if you're doing a pre-blend that there's going to be certain coffees that are going to be either overdeveloped or underdeveloped.

[00:21:08] It sounds like everything was on par with everything.

[00:21:12] Did you have a chance to sort out your roast and go through any of the Quakers or any defects when you did that?

[00:21:21] For the blend component, they gave you an hour to complete all of your components.

[00:21:27] And since I did a pre-blend, my first batch went well.

[00:21:30] And I was like, okay, I hit my time metrics.

[00:21:33] Like, I don't think I can improve on this.

[00:21:36] So let's just like spend time sorting this.

[00:21:39] And so anything that looked underdeveloped, I was sure to pull everything that was underdeveloped because I just didn't want that to be a part of any flavor characteristics.

[00:21:48] And I had like 40 minutes to get that done.

[00:21:52] So I had enough time.

[00:21:53] You turn in, I want to say it was like one and a half kilos was the submission to the judges.

[00:22:00] So like you can't sort every bean out, but like you can sort a good bit in 40 minutes.

[00:22:08] Right.

[00:22:08] So I spent 40 minutes hand picking through and anything that was underdeveloped, I tried to pull just visually underdeveloped.

[00:22:18] And it worked out.

[00:22:20] Yeah.

[00:22:21] Again, that's pretty remarkable.

[00:22:23] I mean, quality control, looking at even one kilo of coffee can be mind numbing.

[00:22:33] That is remarkable, Andrew.

[00:22:35] Thank you.

[00:22:36] Yeah.

[00:22:37] It was one of those things where I knew if I had to redo the batch, I thought I would still have, you know, 15, 20 minutes to pull anything like objectionably yellow.

[00:22:49] And I knew that was a risk, but I just thought, well, I think 15 minutes is enough time to pull anything obvious that's going to be really, really negative.

[00:22:58] And so.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:00] And there's a risk in the reward of it all.

[00:23:03] And obviously it paid off and you got the place in that.

[00:23:08] So that's pretty awesome.

[00:23:09] Congratulations.

[00:23:10] Please.

[00:23:11] I'm just picking your brain because I, I, like I said, I've been following your journey, Andrew, and I'm just so fascinated on the way that you approach coffee.

[00:23:22] You know, with our podcast, we also talk to like folks who are either getting new into the coffee business or learning how to roast coffee or their home roasters themselves.

[00:23:34] For people who are just getting started in generally in coffee roasting, whether it's, you know, picking out the right home roasting machine or your preferred selection of green coffee.

[00:23:48] What advice would you give to a home roaster?

[00:23:52] A couple of things come to mind.

[00:23:53] I mean, we at Elevator still rely heavily on importers.

[00:23:59] And so meet some different importers and work with people you trust and, and, and get to know them so that they can help you find coffees that they know you'd like.

[00:24:10] So that they're, they are there to help you in that process.

[00:24:15] And so definitely find importers you can trust, talk to other coffee folks if they'll, if they'll share that information.

[00:24:21] Some people won't, some people will.

[00:24:24] Um, but if, if you, if you have some allies that are kind of on your sourcing team, even if they're not people that you've hired, if they're your importers, they can still help you find great coffees.

[00:24:36] And so that, that would be one thing.

[00:24:38] Uh, the other thing that I tell new roasters a lot is no kind of like your vision for, for what you want your coffee to be, but realize that you won't always hit that.

[00:24:48] Like realize that there's a line of good enough.

[00:24:51] And then be very consistent because if your roasts are always changing, your customers are not always going to understand why it's changing.

[00:24:58] And they'll either think that you're just not a very good roaster or that they'll just wonder why their experience is changing.

[00:25:05] So, so find the line of good enough for you and, and then, and then consistently hit that.

[00:25:11] Right.

[00:25:11] The other thing I mean, for me personally is, and I learned this in my engineering job, kind of take exceptionally good notes in a system that you can go back and look at.

[00:25:23] If you have really sloppy notes that you just throw in a drawer, they don't do you any good.

[00:25:28] You might as well not take those notes, but if you can keep them sorted and, uh, you know, go back to the coffees you roasted last year and realize, oh, I'm buying a very similar coffee this year from that same elevation and same region.

[00:25:43] How did I roast it?

[00:25:44] What was the best tasting coffee from, from last year?

[00:25:47] You can build on where you were last year and then you can improve from there.

[00:25:51] Right.

[00:25:52] So if you, if you can build yourself a system where you can refer back to your old roasts, that is, for me has been extremely helpful in every year, just improving our process.

[00:26:05] I, I am curious to find out what your taste is in coffee, what you like, uh, and what your top coffees are, especially this year.

[00:26:15] What, what have you tried that you really, really love?

[00:26:17] Um, I think honestly, this year, the coffees from Columbia have really blown my mind.

[00:26:24] I, I like exploring kind of the cutting edge of, of what producers are doing.

[00:26:28] And I feel like in Columbia, the, um, experimentation and the, the processes and the new varieties that are coming out are, are really interesting.

[00:26:40] And like kind of blowing my mind as far as what expectations are of some of these coffees.

[00:26:44] Um, we, we, we had a coffee on, uh, our menu for a very short time called, uh, uh, an ahi bourbon.

[00:26:53] So it's, it's.

[00:26:56] What?

[00:26:59] So it's AJI.

[00:27:01] Um, it's, I think a red tipped leaf that they thought looked like a bourbon variety, but it turns out it's just an Ethiopian, uh, some sort of an Ethiopian land race that is being grown in Columbia right now.

[00:27:13] And the coffee did taste like a washed, uh, Ethiopian.

[00:27:17] It had kind of like very floral, like, uh, um, Jasmine kind of notes.

[00:27:24] It had kind of that, uh, almost like a, a ginger snap cookie.

[00:27:28] It had some like Meyer lemon.

[00:27:30] And I was like, this is very, very like washed Ethiopian, but it's being grown in Columbia.

[00:27:35] And so that one was interesting.

[00:27:38] The pink bourbons, uh, the, um, like purple caturas, all these interesting coffees that are just starting to come to the fore.

[00:27:48] I find them fascinating because I think the more that there's research and, um, genetic diversity being introduced into the supply chain, I think that that's going to be really helpful, um, as climate continues to change.

[00:28:04] And cause farmers to need to find different solutions.

[00:28:07] Right.

[00:28:08] It makes perfect sense.

[00:28:09] Interesting, uh, coffee processes as well.

[00:28:12] There's in Columbia, it's almost like they're getting to the level of like the wine industry where they're seeking out particular yeast strains.

[00:28:21] Right.

[00:28:21] And they're trying to find very, very specific ways of controlling fermentation and yielding very specific flavor results.

[00:28:30] And I find that fascinating.

[00:28:32] Like, I don't know anything about fermentation, but like the fact that they're, um, coming up with these highly controlled processes that are repeatable and they're being able to sell their coffees for high premiums.

[00:28:44] Like, I think that's awesome that the, that farmers are getting that like knowledge and, and able to like, hopefully make, make good money for themselves.

[00:28:53] Uh, how do you feel about the statement that the coffee is actually better now than it was say 10 years ago?

[00:29:00] Would you agree with that?

[00:29:02] I mean, probably I, I, you know, 10 years ago, geisha coffees were blowing everyone's mind now.

[00:29:10] There are then, right.

[00:29:11] Right. And, and, and now it's like, geisha is among one of the many interesting varieties that you could use on a competition stage.

[00:29:18] You could use a sidra, you could use a pink bourbon, you could use a, any number of new varieties that's being highly like cultivated in a very focused way that can yield these spectacular, like floral bright notes.

[00:29:34] So, I mean, I, I know there's obviously challenges in a number of growing countries.

[00:29:40] Like, um, I know like, you know, the, the red sea and all the issues in Yemen and getting coffee out of export from Kenya and Ethiopia, like that's obviously caused a lot of trouble.

[00:29:54] I mean, I'm thankful that we got Ethiopian coffee this year, honestly, and that it tastes really good.

[00:29:59] Um, but like to the extent that there's unrest in areas like that, it's really, really unfortunate.

[00:30:04] Yep.

[00:30:05] Not a fan of blood coffee.

[00:30:07] Not a fan.

[00:30:08] Yeah.

[00:30:09] Yeah.

[00:30:09] Yeah.

[00:30:09] So Andrew, let me ask you this.

[00:30:11] I was recently down in LA.

[00:30:13] You probably know Portola coffee, um, down in Southern California.

[00:30:17] Uh, I was down there just kind of checking out the coffee scene and I had a, a Columbia pink four bone, a watermelon honey cold ferment coffee.

[00:30:31] That absolutely blew my mind.

[00:30:34] It tasted like a watermelon sour patch kid.

[00:30:37] For me, I drink my coffee, my own coffee pretty much every single day.

[00:30:41] So it's rare for me to go out and actually buy someone else's coffee.

[00:30:46] So I went to Portola and I saw the honey coat from it.

[00:30:50] And I said, Hey, give me one of those.

[00:30:51] And the barista looked at me like, you sure about that?

[00:30:55] And I said, yeah, I'm sure about it.

[00:30:57] And he goes, you must be in the coffee industry.

[00:31:00] And I was like, yeah, I am actually.

[00:31:03] He goes, okay, well, here's a 12 ounce, uh, cup of, uh, this pour over and it's going to cost you $10.

[00:31:09] And I said, okay, here's 10 bucks.

[00:31:12] And then I said, do you sell a bag of this?

[00:31:15] He's like, yeah, it's right behind you.

[00:31:17] I got a four ounce bag for $16.

[00:31:20] So at Portola, I spent $26 on this paper bone honey cold ferment coffee that absolutely blew my mind.

[00:31:33] So with all that being said, like with cold fermented coffee, uh, what's your take on it?

[00:31:38] I know it's a little bit of a controversial, you know, thing that's going on in the specialty coffee world.

[00:31:44] What's your thoughts on it?

[00:31:45] I feel like if, if producers are interested in doing co-ferments and, and they're able to like get good results and, and sell their coffees for a premium for that.

[00:31:59] Like, I think that's great.

[00:32:00] I think experimentation is awesome.

[00:32:03] And like, to the extent that there's a market for it, like right now there's a huge market for weird, unique coffees.

[00:32:08] Right.

[00:32:09] So I think where I find it problematic is if we U S roasters are telling our producing partners, can you please co-ferment this coffee?

[00:32:18] But it needs to also score, you know, whatever 89 and then, you know, not empowering them to, or like committing to the purchase.

[00:32:25] Right.

[00:32:25] Of like whatever coffee comes out of that fermentation tank, I'm purchasing it for an 89 price.

[00:32:31] Right.

[00:32:31] Like, I think that's where it starts to become a gray area is like, you're giving them unnecessary risk for something that you're not teaching them how to do properly necessarily.

[00:32:42] Unless you've done it yourself or yeah.

[00:32:45] I think as long as it's the producers driving that and, and able to come up with interesting products that they're able to sell at a premium, like more power to them.

[00:32:55] You know what I mean?

[00:32:56] Yeah.

[00:32:56] I totally agree with that.

[00:32:58] Oh no, completely.

[00:32:59] You know, that's the thing, right?

[00:33:01] As roasters, it's our responsibility to make the coffee to our best ability to show some people something that they love or may not have expected or get something new.

[00:33:14] And, and certainly all those new processes.

[00:33:16] I, I love co-ferment.

[00:33:18] I love co-ferment.

[00:33:20] I just think it's terribly interesting.

[00:33:22] And the coffee makes great tasting coffee.

[00:33:26] Right.

[00:33:27] Exactly what you need.

[00:33:28] Yeah.

[00:33:29] And I kind of feel like I wish there were more discussion around the boring coffees that we don't talk about so much, like the 84, 82, 83 coffees, you know, that come from regional co-ops that, you know, are a lot of farmers that are just kind of barely getting by.

[00:33:46] And to the extent that, like, you know, like, you can find importing partners that are investing in those co-op groups or investing in small farms and helping them improve their coffee processes.

[00:33:58] If that's like figuring out a way to get them.

[00:34:01] Like, I feel like there's a lot of gain that could be happening there with a lot of folks that are, you know, on the margins where coffee isn't necessarily even their first, like, primary driver for their farm.

[00:34:27] They might have other produce that is actually more profitable.

[00:34:30] Making sure that those folks still have a future growing coffee.

[00:34:33] I think that is just highly, highly important.

[00:34:36] And I don't know, it's hard to discuss that in a way that's really accessible without, like, visiting little tiny farms that are built on these crazy slopes.

[00:34:46] And to the extent that there's knowledge about that, like, finding that information and learning more about it.

[00:34:54] I think that is kind of what's going to keep specialty coffee going strong well into the future.

[00:35:01] I think Carrie's credo to buy from women-owned, women-produced is amazing.

[00:35:10] You know, I think that's fantastic.

[00:35:12] And I love buying direct from farm wherever possible.

[00:35:16] Like, I absolutely love doing that for exactly that reason.

[00:35:19] The farmer never gets paid enough.

[00:35:21] So being able to go direct from farm and giving them something above what market calls for, I think, is a responsibility that we all have in specialty coffee.

[00:35:33] Just my opinion.

[00:35:34] Yeah, and honestly, for me, I love roasting coffees that are below an 84.

[00:35:40] My thing is, if it's still in the specialty coffee range, why not roast it?

[00:35:45] You know, my approach with that, too, is, sure, is it a high-scoring coffee?

[00:35:50] No.

[00:35:51] But as you pointed out, Andrew, it's really important to support those farmers with those, you know, type of coffees.

[00:35:59] And not all of us roasters have to score for 85, 86, 89 coffees.

[00:36:04] And most importantly, too, what I feel like, too, is it's all about our local community access for folks who want to, who can't afford, like, a $16 four-ounce coffee.

[00:36:17] That is something that's co-permint, but they also want something that is beyond what's from the grocery store.

[00:36:25] And having that accessibility for great coffee and to bridge that gap between our local community and the specialty coffee world, I think that's really important.

[00:36:37] And that's my approach with that.

[00:36:40] Everything that you're talking about, Andrew, I definitely am forward with what you say.

[00:36:44] And I love hearing what you're saying.

[00:36:47] And I absolutely love your approach and your view on it.

[00:36:51] Yeah, I want to say that you have a couple of fans talking to you right now in this interview because I think we both agree that your coffee is stellar.

[00:36:59] And that's even your day-to-day coffees.

[00:37:02] But having to come up with a roast on Taiwanese coffee with no previous experience, that's crazy.

[00:37:11] That's why I'm just picturing in my mind what I would do in a situation like that.

[00:37:18] I would know what to do.

[00:37:21] I'm genuinely impressed by that.

[00:37:23] Of all the competitors there, there was one Taiwanese competitor.

[00:37:27] And I suspect he was the only one who had ever roasted Taiwanese coffee.

[00:37:30] I don't know if that's true, but that's my guess.

[00:37:32] So I feel like we were all in the same boat with that.

[00:37:35] But yeah, that was a challenge.

[00:37:38] Okay, so just in case people out there do not know, third place is the best showing of an American roaster in the history of the competition.

[00:37:47] Well done.

[00:37:48] Well done.

[00:37:49] And as you were saying before the show, I am so hopeful for you to go forward.

[00:37:56] It would be sure nice if one of the two other people in this interview might walk away with some hardware this year.

[00:38:03] And certainly I know the skills are there for both.

[00:38:05] It's kind of nice to be in touch with both of y'all.

[00:38:08] So thank you.

[00:38:09] Okay, so real quick.

[00:38:11] I know we're almost up for time.

[00:38:12] But I know Andrew, we kind of talked a little bit offline here and there.

[00:38:19] I would love to ask if someone is like myself entering into roasters championship for the first time.

[00:38:27] What advice would you give someone like myself entering into this?

[00:38:32] Yeah, that's a great question.

[00:38:34] So, you know, roasters competition is just like any other game.

[00:38:41] Understanding the rules, understanding like all the stuff that they give you beforehand can really set you up for doing well at the competition.

[00:38:50] I think their website is down right now, but the score sheets will be online.

[00:38:53] The judges, like, sorry, the roast plan sheet that you have to fill out when you hand in your coffee is online as well.

[00:39:02] So just kind of being familiar with how that evaluation is going to go is critical.

[00:39:08] And then, you know, like it's kind of challenging because being a first timer, you don't really know what the judges are scoring to.

[00:39:17] I've been judged by several of the folks who are still the judges.

[00:39:21] And so I know a little bit about what they like.

[00:39:23] I feel like bring your own artistic impression of how you like to roast coffee.

[00:39:29] And to me, competition, even though it is a competition, if you can enjoy the process and like learn from other people and not have your objectives be set on finishing within the top X positions, you know what I mean?

[00:39:46] Like, I think that's how you get the most out of competitions.

[00:39:49] And then the results kind of come how they come.

[00:39:51] We both competed in the Haseya roasting competition this summer.

[00:39:56] Yep.

[00:39:56] You did awesome there.

[00:39:57] That was amazing.

[00:39:58] And I feel like, you know, you brought your roasting style to that coffee and it totally rocked the Brazil.

[00:40:05] Right.

[00:40:07] So since we don't know what the coffee is, you kind of just hone your style, know what you're being scored against.

[00:40:16] And then, you know, they'll give us an overview of all the equipment.

[00:40:20] But if you are able to roast on the actual machine before the competition, that would be really helpful.

[00:40:28] You know, I think those would be kind of the starting points of like what to be thinking about.

[00:40:33] Cup with the roasting plan sheet in front of you.

[00:40:37] Okay.

[00:40:37] Since you're going to have to turn that in with your coffee before you roast it, just know kind of how you place things on that sheet.

[00:40:49] And that's going to be half your points is your roasting plan is just the accuracy of that.

[00:40:54] So the quality of the coffee doesn't have to be, you know, your roast quality is going to be what it's going to be according to the judges.

[00:41:01] Your roast plan, if that's extremely accurate to what their notes say, like you could totally rock that.

[00:41:09] And that would put you really high in the overall.

[00:41:12] Well, that's awesome.

[00:41:13] What great advice that is.

[00:41:14] Yeah, that's fantastic.

[00:41:16] Thank you, Andrew, for that.

[00:41:17] I appreciate it.

[00:41:19] And I'm excited to see you next month.

[00:41:22] That'd be super rad.

[00:41:24] And we got to take a picture together for sure.

[00:41:27] Okay.

[00:41:29] For sure.

[00:41:30] Come out a day, come out a day early and grab a drink at our espresso bar.

[00:41:35] We'd love to have you.

[00:41:36] Yeah, definitely.

[00:41:37] If you have time, just one by Elfro.

[00:41:38] That would be awesome.

[00:41:40] Yeah.

[00:41:40] Yeah.

[00:41:41] We'd love to see you.

[00:41:42] Well, again, we'd like to say thank you to Primo Roasting Equipment.

[00:41:45] And I've said this for a while.

[00:41:47] They treat us very well.

[00:41:48] And it's my favorite current roaster in the 20K size and probably bigger.

[00:41:53] I'm just saying.

[00:41:54] And Christian and Brandon are down at Primo Roasting Equipment.

[00:41:57] We'd love to hear from you.

[00:41:58] We also want to thank Seattle Coffee Automation.

[00:42:01] The bagging machine is amazing.

[00:42:03] Haven't had one problem.

[00:42:05] We just passed our 28,000th on that with no errors whatsoever.

[00:42:10] We are so impressed.

[00:42:12] We really want to say thank you to San Cristobal Coffee Importers.

[00:42:17] Amazing coffee from Nairit, Mexico and from Ethiopia.

[00:42:21] Definitely call Jacob out there.

[00:42:23] Jacob's a great guy and can definitely help you.

[00:42:26] And finally, last but definitely not least, Kool-Aid Coffee with a really spectacular single

[00:42:34] serve coffee machine.

[00:42:35] Keep an eye out.

[00:42:36] It's coming.

[00:42:37] In the meantime, Andrew Coe, thank you from me.

[00:42:39] I appreciate you being here.

[00:42:41] Such a great interview.

[00:42:42] Thanks so much for the time.

[00:42:44] I really had a lot of fun chatting with you guys and looking forward to see you in a few

[00:42:48] weeks in Portland.

[00:42:49] Yeah, for sure.

[00:42:50] Absolutely love it.

[00:42:52] And thank you all for those who are listening to the podcast.

[00:42:54] If you haven't subscribed, please give us a follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

[00:43:01] you're listening to podcasts.

[00:43:02] And we'll see you guys on the next episode.

[00:43:08] Thanks for joining us.

[00:43:09] If you like our podcast or our coffee, give us a five-star review whenever you listen to

[00:43:15] podcasts.

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